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JasminesMom

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Posts: 440
 #1 
Like I wasn't having a bad enough week, Friday I was sitting in a hospital waiting room waiting for word about my younger sister when a pastor and someone from his congregation were having a rather loud discussion about the afterlife and how do I say the Non-Spirituality of Animals.  Basically repeating that animals have no spirituality and do not live on in God's eternal kingdom. 

They proceeded to talk about how people get all wrapped up in the love they have for these creatures who again do not live on and leave thousands of dollars behind for their care, meaning in their wills, etc.  They also were talking about the endowments people leave behind for the local SPCAs and how pointless that all is when there are more lasting and admirable associations that could use the money.

It took everything in me not to stand up screaming.  Like many here I can't even fathom the next life without my beloved animals, especially my Jasmine.  If I believed that Jasmine perished that fateful day and I'd never see her again, I couldn't take it.

Now I understand everyone is individual in what they believe and I'm all for that but for me it was so difficult in an already tough situation to hear a conversation like that going on.  Needless to say when I could I got up and left the area.

I have to say I have times of tremendous doubt when grief strikes me hard and I wonder will I see my beloved Jasmine again but without that hope to hold on to I don't think personally I'd be able to get through.  And I know I have to so again, I'll keep believing and trusting my Jasmine indeed has a soul, continues on and I will see her again.

Anyone else out there ever come across people who believe so strongly that our animals simply cease to exist once their time on earth is done???  How did you handle that????

Thanks so much for listening my good friends.

                      Hugs to you, JasminesMom

polkadots

Registered:
Posts: 117
 #2 
How awful! I think that pastor has missed seeing the bigger picture...
did he forget about ALL of God's things and children?
I don't understand that at all.
Jasmine is a big wonderful spirit. There's no question about this.
Love and light, Pat (Daisy daddy)

Nancee

Registered:
Posts: 1,328
 #3 
It's a dogmatic or programmed response that they have, basically. If it says such and such, that's it. There is no room for inquiry. Alot of people believe in their beliefs strongly enough to exclude all other possibilities.
I'm always suspicious of this type of thinking. For myself, it doesn't work, never did. I guess to each his own.
To say that people shouldn't leave money to animal organizations--well, that's pretty rediculous. Again, these folks think people have more "value" than animals. Americans are animal lovers so there's no chance that that type of thinking will really affect many people.
I hear people say all sorts of things. I think some should think before they talk.
Shiannon

Registered:
Posts: 76
 #4 
How very very sad these people are. I can't believe the narrow mindedness of some people. As I have said before, our beautiful furbabies deserve no less than a place in the light. They come to us and love us unconditionally. They are pure. And they leave us the same way. I don't know too many human beings that can claim that honour. Myself included. If I said that I was I would just become another narrow minded individual.

There is a place for our beloved pets in heaven, in the light, in spirit, whatever your belief.  I have spoken to many people about this, shared many experiences, and even experiences of seeing, feeling or hearing our loved animals after death. All this from sane, normal and well adjusted people. I have no doubt in my mind that my beautiful boy is watching over me and waiting for me to arrive, when we can be together again. Our love for each other is too strong to be wiped out in a lifetime. It will go on forever.  Do not worry about these 'enlightened' people. They have no place in your thoughts, but pray for them that they one day become a little more compassionate for the animal kingdom, of which they are a part of.  Share your thoughts with like minded people, and grow stronger in your beliefs.



Shiannon, Jackson's mum. Love you and miss you my beautiful boy. Til we meet again.

HelenY

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Posts: 1,415
 #5 
Dear Kathy-- I can't even fathom not having that hope to cling to until we meet our furchildren again.  What you heard was a conversation between people who have their own opinions and don't know the full picture.  I know it's been written on this board already (passages from the Bible itself) showing us that our dear animals DO have souls.  We have to believe in our hearts that our little ones are there.  How can we not?  So many of us have had signs to prove they are with us.
      It's unfortunate that you had to listen to this gibberish and I hope that you will feel sorry for individuals such as them who probably never have been owned or loved by a special furbaby.
      And in answer to your question--yes, I've come across people who strongly believe there is no afterlife for them AND they've owned pets!  One lady I know who lost her 2 babies within a couple of years of each other and also is an animal lover and very kind to all furchildren, does not believe in the Rainbow Bridge or anything else for that matter.  I also think she doesn't believe in it for humans either.  But I let go of people like that, because they are entitled to that.  However,  thank goodness I meet more who DO believe than don't.  Maybe that's telling us something after all?!

                     Many hugs (and I hope your sister is doing well)--

                                   Teddy's Mom
bugsdogs

Registered:
Posts: 1,288
 #6 
I guess I have a very simple philosophy on animals going to heaven. If God created all of these wonderful animals we have in the world and especially our beloved pets why would he deny them heaven? Why are we supposed to be the only ones allowed in? As far as I am concerned animals deserve to be in heaven long before us mere humans....

I cannot imagine heaven without them, and that is the only way I can accept that I have lost my Chancey and Digby and all my other dogs. If I didn't think they were there how hard would that be to continue on. We are given that hope and faith that they are there, how else could be carry on?

I feel ashamed of religious leaders who say animals do not go to heaven. They must not understand the Bible very well, or the true meaning of God. I am not a religious person but I do believe that.

Helen
SpookyWolfe

Moderator
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Posts: 607
 #7 

I'm so sorry that you had to overhear a conversation like that.  It's sad when spiritual leaders come across as so "un-enlightened."  I've bumped up a thread called "MUST READ --- Why Weren't We Told??"  that I hope will bring you some comfort. 

As far as what I say to these people ---- I just say that SAINT Francis of Assisi would probably disagree with them.



edited to add link
mykittygirl

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Posts: 881
 #8 
I absolutely agree with everyone who has commented here.  And I like the word "gibberish" because that's exactly what such narrow-minded unsupported comments are.

Certain people like to think that they are "above" other creation and that only "they" deserve an afterlife.  Pay them no mind and ignore such foolish statements.

I truly believe that animals are with us to teach what they already know.  They are so advanced just with their senses alone. They are aware and know things that we don't comprehend.   They are teachers of unconditional love and non-judgement....which humans struggle with and very few have mastered...they show us the way.  They are pure in spirit and that loving spirit does not die.  You can see it in their eyes.

My Cicio had given me a gift when she left...after gasping for breath and dying as she lay on my bedroom floor, her spirit left it's imprint on her face.  Her face was beautiful...peaceful...smiling and her front paws crossed in relaxation.   There was no doubt that her spirit had smiled when it left the body.

In peace,

Donna


                                       
WooWooWoo

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Posts: 5,100
 #9 
How do I handle people who believe animals don't have an aferlife or soul?

Well, almost everyone I know has beloved pets, and they all believe. 

As far as the others who don't believe, I just ignore them.  I literally walk away as I find that kind of talk offensive.  You certainly are not going to convince someone who doesn't believe, so why waste your time trying to talk to them?  

As far as the conversation you overheard, it sounds like it had more to do with money than the afterlife.   Nothing irritates me more than for someone to suggest what I should do with my money.  Of course animal shelters are worthy causes.  Kind of makes me think these people may be walking on the morally bankrupt side of life and not even have a clue. 

You WILL see Jasmine again.  No doubt about that.

Sending big hugs,
Melissa
Betsy's forever mom 




JasminesMom

Registered:
Posts: 440
 #10 
Melissa:

Thank you for your kind words.  Your final sentence about Jasmine made me cry tears of joy.  I'm with you, I believe that too, I have to.  Again, thank you.

Donna:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  I am so happy for you that the end was peaceful for your baby.  Though it wasn't that way for me, I know in
my heart Jasmine was glad to be free from a body that caused her so much distress and I do believe I'll see her again, whole and beautiful.  She deserves nothing less that's for sure.

SpookyWolf:

Thank you so much, I appreciate the reminder thread on the Pope's declarations about animals and the afterlife.  I choose to believe that too.  Certainly like most here I've found animals with more of a right to be in heaven than many people I've known.  Again, thank you.

Helen (bugsdogs):

Thank you my friend for your words.  I agree with everything you said and I thank you for taking time to respond to my post.

HelenY:

Thank you for your kind words and also the mention of my sister.  I think she'll be okay.  It's been a stressful time for my family and again the conversation I had to overhear didn't help that day but I'm so past it and appreciate all the love and support I've gotten here from all of you.

Shiannon:

Thank you for your words.  Your baby is so sweet too.  I agree that sharing with like minded people really does help strengthen my belief so for that I thank all of you.

Nancy:

Thank you I couldn't have said it better myself.  Like Mom always said if you don't have something nice to say......."  Thanks for your support.

Polkdots:

Thank you and I agree about Jasmine being a big wonderful spirit and I live for the day we'll be together again.




rupertsmum

Registered:
Posts: 820
 #11 
How awful for you. They do not know for sure. Unless you have been there how could you know.

I have spoken to mediums and spiritualists and they see animals.  They are so accurate and can describe the animal and they can't make up someones animal they have never seen.  There was a programme on TV 2 weeks ago and the woman wanted to know what happened to her husband when he passed over.  There were some doubts of how it happened.  The pyschic brought this guy through and told the women details that no one could possibly know and he was surrounded by dogs.  The lady started crying and said that was her husband because he loved dogs and had had a few that had passed over.  He described a few of the dogs and got it right.  I believe it, this pyschic is well-known in UK.

I go to a spiritualist church and they believe not so much in god but a higher power and the mediums believe in animals coming through.  What other people believe is irrelevant, it is what we believe in that is important.  I could not survive if I thought I would not see Rupert again.  Ruperts Mum
beausmom

Registered:
Posts: 8
 #12 
When I searched do animals go to heaven.. Ifound a group whos mission is to prove it..

and in luke 3:6  all flesh shall see the salvation of God

Genesis 1:30  and to every animal of the earth and to every fowl of the heavens and to everything that creepeth the earth in which is a LIVING SOUL!

i hate when people say that they dont have they dies and gone to haven and back..  and know this?

ok the best few

Romans 8:19-21

because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious libery of the children of god.

Ecclesiastes 3:19  Mans fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both, as one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath, man has no advantage over the animal.  Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place, all come from dust and to dust all return.


i love that!


Nuggetsmum

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Posts: 251
 #13 
Hi Jasmine'smom,

I am so sorry yo uhad to hear that rubbish...I can swee why it would upset yo so much...actually a week before my baby boy passed my father in law who is a devout Christian ( I am nit sure which denomination) said to me that animals have no souls.

Like you, in my desperate times I really question whether I will see Nugget again but I have to have hope...it is all I live for right now...and honestly, heaven wouldn't be heaven without our babies.

St Francis's words are beautiful..

Thankyou for writing this post,

Love Nuggetsmum Alana
JasminesMom

Registered:
Posts: 440
 #14 
RupertsMom:

Thank you for your kind words.  I appreciate your insights so much.  It was so comforting to hear about the program you saw on t.v.  Like you I have to believe I'll see my sweet girl again or I don't think my heart could take it.  Again, thank you for posting and take care.

                                    Hugs to you, JasminesMom
VAG048

Registered:
Posts: 29
 #15 
hi jasmines mom,

thank you for asking the question, i loved reading the pope's words and the bible quotes, all of which i believe dearly too. (and sorry you had to bear listening to people who have no Faith...)

someone else here once said, something that may seem insignificant compared to the biblical quotes - but they said, animals are even closer to God, that's why they have to spend less time here on earth (learning lessons...)...i liked that alot.

be well,
Miss Kitty's mom forever
(still grieving 7 months later, miss her so, so much)
MYFAV5

Registered:
Posts: 730
 #16 
I truly believe we will see all our beloved pets again. I believe we'll see ALL our loved ones again.

I've run into those that don't believe & they try to change my mind, but they don't and never ever could change what I believe in most of all.

I think mainly it's like "What Dreams May Come". That's how I believe it is. I beleive Rainbow Bridge is however you believe it is.

If you believe, then that's all that matters.
doodlebug

Registered:
Posts: 237
 #17 
JasminesMom....

We all have our own beliefs and I would never begrudge anyone whose beliefs were different from mine. However, I do believe that I'll see my little boy again and I do believe that he's in heaven waiting for my husband and I. Something that happened today really made me a true believer.

My husband and I lost our beloved 12-year-old chocolate lab (Gus) 2 weeks ago today. It has been two of the hardest weeks in our life. I had a nickname for him in the last few years of his life.....I called him "Buggles" or "Bug" for short. I'm the only one who called him that...it was my special name for him. It evolved from the name "Doodlebug" which I called him when he was younger when the would leisurely wander around our land.

The night before we had to put him to sleep, I slept on the sofa to be near him and talked to him on and off all night because neither of us did much sleeping. He always listened intensely when I would talk to him quietly and would look me straight in the eye and tilt his head to one side as though he was absorbing every word I said. One of the many things that I told him was that I really needed to know (after he was gone) that he was alright and that he was in a good place. I told him this several times during the hours preceding his death.

In the days after his death on 6/18/08, I talked to him many times each day as the grief became overwhelming. I told him over and over again that I needed a sign from him. I needed to know that he understood that we had done everything we could for him and that our lives would never be the same without him.

Several days later, I ran an errand. I was very sad and walking around in a daze. I got out of my car in the parking lot of the store, began to walk toward the store and
heard several guys (looked like they may have been in construction) yelling for a small puppy that I had seen with them. I turned around as the puppy ran up to me. I put my hand down toward it, it gently licked my finger and turned around and left. It was very sweet and had a very odd feeling to it so I wondered to myself if maybe Gus was trying to tell me something.

However, during my 'conversation' with Gus the following day, I told him that I needed an unmistakeable sign from him. I desperately needed to know if he was ok and if he was still with us. I waited several days and nothing happened. Yesterday morning, I was having a particularly rough time dealing with his passing and begged him to give me a 'sign'.....once again - something unmistakeable.

This morning (2 weeks since his passing) at about 7am, I was watching a national news show. They are doing a special on the 1980's and began showing some type of music video from that time. I had the TV on 'mute' and looked away for a moment. When I turned back toward the TV, there on the screen was the name "Buggles". It evidently had something to do with the music video (maybe the name of the group from the video??). However, it was displayed as plain as day on the screen....not "The Buggles" (such as the name of a musical group) but, instead, just "Buggles". Others would say it was just a coincidence but I choose to believe that he knew I needed to hear from him. He and I had an unbelievable connection while he was here on earth and I refuse to believe that the connection is gone. He had one of the most beautiful souls I've ever seen and I firmly believe that he's watching over us today.

I got my "sign" and I know that my little guy is ok and his beautiful soul is still with me. I believe.......

Gus "Buggles" - 2/2/1996 - 6/18/2008




Georgeann

Registered:
Posts: 2,245
 #18 
What a horrible experience.  I know that our babies are waiting at the Bridge for us to arrive.  Read Kim Sheridan's Book, Animals and the Afterlife.  It is great and will help.  Is all I can say is that the Pastor is so fortunate it was not me listening to that conversation as I would not have been as polite as you were.

Big Hugs
Georgeann and Christopher
Forever
shadowsmama

Registered:
Posts: 67
 #19 
Sometimes it's hard for me to believe he is somewhere waiting for me because I don't feel his presence at all and I have tried so hard...sitting quietly alone I have tried so hard to see if I could sense him around me and I feel nothing.....
BUT if there is a heaven like I think/hope there is, my sweet boy has to be there...They say heaven is perfect ..... it couldn't possibly be perfect for me without him. So he must be there.
DocU2

Registered:
Posts: 115
 #20 
How awful!  That pastor is seriously behind the times as well.  Many religions now openly accept all creatures as being able to enter God's kingdom.

I do feel it was wise of you not to interfere in their discussion as you were not part of it.  However, given the circumstances, you may have asked them to tone down their voices given that you could clearly hear them during a stressful time and that not everyone shares their views.

On this website, everyone will disagree with that narrow-minded and out-dated pastor.  Therefore, feel free to share that frustration with us at any time.  Sadly, some people are still biased against others due to race, gender, religion, education, etc.  It's a shame that people, especially one preaching God's word, are still so closed-minded in today's world. 

JasminesMom

Registered:
Posts: 440
 #21 
Wow, I never imagined I'd receive such a response to my recent post but I am so very grateful for all the wonderful people here who stopped and took time to add their thoughts and offer support.  It's a shame there aren't more people in the world as kind as the folks I've met here at petloss.

Dear DocU2, shadowsmama, Georgeann, doodlebug, MYFAV5, Miss Kitty's Mom, Alana, beausmom, hope I haven't left anyone out, 


Jasmine, I Know I'll See You Again, Miss You Baby!!!!!!!

Thank You So Much My Friends for your invaluable advice and support.  It so helps to know we're on this journey together and I don't think I could make it without all of you here.  Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

                                Kathy (JasminesMom)

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